Friday, May 16, 2005

Arlington, Virginia

Mr. Lawrence: Good morning and welcome to The Business of Government Hour. I'm Paul Lawrence, partner in charge of The IBM Center for The Business of Government. We created the Center in 1998 to encourage discussion and research into new approaches to improving government effectiveness. You can find out more about the Center by visiting us on the web at www.businessofgovernment.org.

Mr. Basham: Good morning. Good morning, Paul.

Mr. Lawrence: And also joining us in our conversation from IBM is Dave Abel.

Mr. Basham: Yes, I'd be happy to. As a matter of fact, I suppose most people are familiar with the Secret Service's mission with regard to the protection of the President of the United States, the Vice President, and members of their families and others, but what many people don't realize and know is that the Secret Service actually had its origins for a totally different purpose. Back following the Civil War, 1865, approximately one third to one half of all of the currency in circulation at that time was believed to be counterfeit, and the Secretary of Treasury at the time, Secretary Hugh McColloch, approached the President, and advised the President that the counterfeiting problem was so significant that it was actually threatening the financial stability of the United States, and that as a matter of fact, the whole reconstruction effort of the South was being threatened.

So the Secretary asked the President if he would authorize the creation of an organization within the Treasury Department to combat this counterfeiting problem, and that day, the President did in fact authorize the creation of a law enforcement component within Treasury to do that. Ironically, that was April 14, 1865. That night, of course, those of who know history, Abraham Lincoln went to Ford's Theatre and was assassinated. So therefore one of the last acts of one this country's greatest presidents was to in fact create an organization that would protect the financial integrity and financial infrastructure of the United States. And we continue to do that today.

Another sort of an interesting fact is that the first chief of the Secret Service, by name of William Wood; at the time, he was the Director of Corrections for the D.C. jail system, and his first three employees were in fact inmates from the D.C. jail system. But I can tell you, we have done a better job since then of recruiting and hiring our agents and officers, but the idea that the first chief had, as well as the Department of Treasury, was if they were in fact going to establish the credibility of the currency of this country, they had to suppress the counterfeit currency from getting into the hands of the public. And the way they did that was through undercover operations. And of course these inmates who were in the D.C. jail were in fact master counterfeiters. And so he used their knowledge and expertise in order to infiltrate those various operations out there that were in fact counterfeiting U.S. currency. And the idea, again, was to suppress it, and to prevent it from getting it into the hands of the public.

All of the operatives at the time were undercover, and in fact, the Service was in fact a secret service within the Department of Treasury to deal with this problem of counterfeiting, and therefore, that's how the name was derived, and we continue to this day to be the United States Secret Service. And not until 1901, after this country saw in a period of 35 years the assassination of three of our presidents: Lincoln, Garfield, and McKinley, and we were tasked with the responsibility in 1901 to protect Teddy Roosevelt, and was our first actual presidential protection responsibility. And of course, that's been expanded, now that we protect not just the president, but vice president, members of their family, heads of state, heads of government that visit this country.

And then in 1922, the White House police was established to protect the actual physical building that the president was housed in, and other buildings around Washington, D.C., and they are now the Uniformed Division of the United States Secret Service. So that's a little bit of a glimpse of the history and how we came to be charged with the dual responsibilities of investigations and protection. But I can tell you that that early philosophy and methodology of suppressing and preventing crimes from occurring before they hit the public has been one that we have embraced and continue to embrace to this day. We still approach our investigations and protective responsibilities with that idea in mind. We don't want to investigate the assassination of a president, we want to prevent it.

Mr. Lawrence: Tell us about the size of your team. How do you think about the Secret Service, in terms of the size, and in particular, given the story you told about the first employees, the skill sets of the team?

Mr. Basham: Well, we're made up of a number of different entities, not only special agents but Uniformed Division officers, technicians, attorneys, scientists; the normal components that go into an organization such as investigative protective agencies, such as the Secret Service. You know, many people ask me today what's the difference between when I came on the job and what we're looking for in people who are coming on the job today, and I tell them when I came on the job, they issued me a gun, a badge and a horse, and today it's a gun, a badge and a computer. They now have a whole different arena that they are dealing in.

The skill sets we are interested in today are people who are comfortable in cyberspace, with computers, and dealing in the financial sector, and looking at it from that perspective, versus heretofore, you had an investigator, as you would typically look at an investigator's skill sets as being someone who's out there plodding away knocking on doors. And today, that's changed. Someone sitting thousands of miles away can attack our financial infrastructure with merely a key stroke. And so we're looking for people who have analytical skills, who have computer skills -- that's not to say that we still don't rely upon basic investigative tools and skills that you develop over time. So it's really changed a great deal over the past ten or fifteen years, and we're recognizing that, and not only are we recruiting from that set of skill sets, we're also training individuals in those kinds of skill sets.

Mr. Abel: You highlighted that the Secret Service started in the Department of Treasury, but we also know that it transitioned into the Department of Homeland Security recently. How has that transition impacted the operation of the Service?

Mr. Basham: Well, the one factor that I think is unique to the Secret Service, whenever we were moved from the Department of Treasury to the Department of Homeland Security, we went intact. Our mission and our resources were all intact when we moved. Others were broken up in some respects, which did have an effect, and it's had an effect on trying to bring the Department together from those 22 different agencies, but we didn't have to deal with the same sorts of problems that others who migrated to the Department of Homeland Security had to face.

Our mission literally has not changed. Our focus has not changed. Now, what I think we bring to the Department is a model, in many respects, as to what the Department's mission is today is very, very similar to the Secret Service's mission, and that is about prevention; that is about putting the resources in place; building the partnerships which we've had to rely upon for so many years, because we are a relatively small agency. We've always had to rely upon state, local, and other federal assets in order for us to accomplish our mission. The Department, I think, recognizes that for them to be successful, those same sorts of partnerships with state, local, and other federal agencies have to be there in order for us to able to accomplish to incredibly critical mission that the Department is facing today.

Mr. Abel: When you mentioned partnerships, it seems like one of the organizations with whom you have to have the most extensive partnership is the Federal Bureau of Investigation. What type of relationship does the Secret Service have with the FBI?

Mr. Basham: I feel that our relationship with the FBI continues to improve. I think since 9/11, I think everyone in law enforcement, in the intelligence community, recognizes that we need to do a better job of sharing information, sharing resources, and sharing commitment that we will do whatever is necessary in order to prevent another occurrence such as what happened on 9/11. And the way we do that is by constantly -- the communications between those various agencies out there.

You know, the time when keeping a secret from others that could provide some opportunity to prevent something from happening, I don't believe the American public is going to be patient or understanding if something occurs, and the reason that it occurred was because there were turf battles or turf issues -- we have just got to figure out a way to get around those, and to push that idea down through the agencies, through the organizations.

You know, the Director of the FBI, the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and NSA, all of us understand the need for that cooperation, that sharing, and now it's our responsibility to drive that down through the various agencies and components to make sure that everyone understands that that's a necessity and a requirement if we're going to be successful.

Mr. Lawrence: That's an interesting point about sharing.

Mr. Lawrence: Welcome back to The Business of Government Hour. I'm Paul Lawrence, and this morning's conversation is with Ralph Basham, Director of the U.S. Secret Service.

Mr. Basham: Dave, my role is not unlike the role of any chief executive, in that I have the overall responsibility for managing the day-to-day sort of global affairs of the United States Secret Service, but I also see my role as being there to support the mission of the organization, and whether that means getting them the resources or getting them the training or working through Congress and the administration to ensure that that funding is there to provide them with those tools to get the job done. It's also to keep the organization focused, focused on the mission of the organization. And as we've discussed, it's a dual mission of both investigations and protection, and to make sure that we maintain a balance between those two functions. On the one hand, it is the strength of our organization to have the dual mission. On the other hand, it also at times can be the Achilles' heel, in that we need to constantly be looking at shifting resources as demand requires.

And as you know, last year being an election year was an incredibly demanding year for the Service in that we had a number of special security events, plus the campaign and the conventions, but I also had to make sure that the organization was continuing to be focused on our responsibilities to the financial sector, in that we are the service provider to the financial sector for criminal activities that continue to go on regardless of whether or not there's a campaign for the presidency or not.

So it's my responsibility to make sure we keep those balanced; to make sure that our personnel have the tools that they need to get that done, and that we are constantly looking for opportunities to improve upon our mission requirements, whether it's technology or other things out there that I need to bring to bear. So it's not unlike any other CEO in government or outside of government.

Mr. Lawrence: What are the strategic goals of the Secret Service?

Mr. Basham: Well, I just hit upon one. We have got to look to technology. Technology, we recognize, is going to be the key if we are going to be successful in the future in combating the threats and challenges in both of our dual missions. The goal is to ensure that the levels of resources are appropriate to the responsibilities. I can tell you that, for instance, last year, during the campaign, as again I said, we are a relatively small organization. We put 1.7 million hours of overtime on our people in addition to the regular hours. And the goal here is to balance the workforce so that we are not putting those kinds of demands on our people on a quadrennial basis.

And so to get that balance, and to make sure that we have the ability to meet the mission requirements, and at the same time, not put our people through such a rancorous year as that we need to look at technology. So it's looking at technology, looking at the workforce and the requirements of the workforce are the goal that we're trying to work toward. And the Congress and the administration have been very, very supportive; I have to say, along those lines, but recognizing that our strategies have to be aligned with those goals and strategies of the administration as well, and the Congress.

Mr. Lawrence: Let's focus for a minute on a different piece of the mission that you handle. There are events that become designated as National Special Security Events, or NSSEs.

Mr. Basham: Right.

Mr. Lawrence: How many of those do you average a year?

Mr. Basham: Well, it's difficult to say that we have an average, because last year, for example, we had five. We had the G-8, which was the Group of Eight meetings, in Sea Island, Georgia, which was designated a National Special Security Event. On the heels of that -- literally on the heels of that -- the funeral of former President Reagan was designated as a National Special Security Event; we had the two conventions, which were the Democratic and Republican conventions in Boston and New York, and we had the inauguration. And each one of those brings with it its own challenges.

But the idea is to -- when one of these are designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security as an National Special Security Event, the Secret Service is charged with a design and a plan and the implementation of an operational security plan. And that is to bring all of the elements of the federal government to the table to ensure that where you have these gatherings of large people, that a process is in place to bring whatever elements, whatever components are necessary to pull that off in a safe, secure way. The FBI is charged as the lead investigative agency for a National Special Security Event, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency is charged with the consequence management for those events, so that the three entities come together as a group and discuss all of the facets of that particular event, and make sure that the planning and the other responsibilities have been coordinated. And it's all about coordinating those federal assets.

Mr. Abel: If we look at one event, like the inauguration, we'll just use that as an example, what do you need to do to be able to design and plan and implement security with things like state and local authorities, the local police department? What are some of the things you need to do to be able to coordinate security?

Mr. Basham: Well, first of all, let me just say that none of these events could be done without the support and cooperation of state, local, and other federal law -- as well as public safety first responders begin brought together. Now, the one advantage of an inauguration is we know that it's going to happen every four years. Now, this was the first inauguration following the 9/11 attacks. But the planning of the inauguration had been going on for some time. Clearly, it was an elevated threat situation when you have that number of people coming together, but we have been doing this for many years.

In fact, we go back to -- I believe the first one that we were involved in was in 1886 or something. So we know that the various elements that go into the planning are fairly basic. We know the sites that have to be secured; we know how those sites should be secured. The challenge is being able to bring the resources in and find the resources. And without the Metropolitan Police Department, without the Capitol Police, without the U.S. Park Police, without the Department of Defense, there is absolutely no way that that could have been accomplished without those partnerships that have been in place for many, many years.

But it's really -- the basics are there, and it is really expanding upon those basic -- as these challenges change -- 9/11 clearly brought about a higher level of threat, but we look at not only what we are presented with on the surface, but we look at what's under the surface, and we look at what's above the surface. So whether it's air, land, or sea, or whether it's subterranean, we have to look at every aspect of it to make sure that that package is put together, and that safe and secure package is in place for not just the President, but also the public as well. And that's quite a challenge, as you can imagine.

Mr. Lawrence: Your investigative mission also includes a Forensic Services Division. Could you tell us about the service this division provides?

Mr. Basham: Well, the Secret Service's Forensic Services Division provides forensic examination of -- whether it be documents or whether it be handwriting. So it is literally a forensic examination that has been done by experts; whether it is a letter threatening the President of the United States, or whether it's a financial instrument that's suspected of being forged. We have the capability of examining those documents, that handwriting. We have one of the largest supplies of inks in the world that we can do comparisons with. We have one of the largest files on handwriting samples that we can use to determine whether or not someone who may have shown a direction of interest toward the President has done it in the past. So it's an investigative tool that is used and presented in court by experts, based upon that forensic examination of whatever evidence they are presented.

Now, we also are in a partnership with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and we do a lot of work with them in forensic examination of evidence to help support their role in protecting our nation's children. So whether it's fingerprints or handwriting or inks, we have that capability of examining those and comparing those to known sources.

Mr. Lawrence: That's interesting, especially about the supply of ink.

Mr. Lawrence: Welcome back to The Business of Government Hour. I'm Paul Lawrence. This morning's conversation is with Ralph Basham, Director of the U.S. Secret Service.

Mr. Basham: Well, we recognize, first of all, that crime in the Information Age has changed from -- I guess we can best describe it as crime in the Industrial Age, recognizing, as I said before, someone can attack our systems thousands of miles away by merely use of keystrokes on a computer. So we've had to adjust our thinking. The whole globalization issue, combined with the information revolution, has really made us rethink the way we approach our responsibilities. In fact, information, as you know, which was once used as a tool to facilitate information, it is now the target. Information is basically the world's new currency; it provides access; it shows our vulnerabilities and weaknesses. And now we're looking at information itself needs to be protected, and attacks on information need to be aggressively investigated.

As you have seen in recent months, large corporations have been hacked into, and information, personal identification has been gained, and is used to acquire -- and for criminal purposes. So we've had to adjust our thinking to, again, going back to the basics of how we go about our business. And that is, we look at the threat, we assess the vulnerability, and then we try to develop countermeasures to deal with that vulnerability. This is a new vulnerability; this is a new threat in the Information Age and in cyber, because of the access that criminals have using technology. We have to get out in front of that. We have to get out in front of the technology in order to come up with countermeasures.

And we are working very closely with the financial community, the financial industry, the financial services sector, to look at vulnerabilities, and to come up with those countermeasures that are going to prevent those vulnerabilities from being exposed. So therefore, we have several initiatives. Let me give you an example of a case that we just worked recently. We dubbed it as Operation Firewall. And what that was, it was a case, an investigation, that involved, I believe, six different countries, eight cities around the United States.

These individuals were carrying on a criminal enterprise tapping in to corporations, obtaining information, credit card numbers, social security numbers, and they had an open market on the internet selling and trading that information. And literally, I think we ended up shutting it down with losses somewhere in the neighborhood of $4 or $5 million. But it was estimated that the potential loss from that criminal enterprise could have reached a billion dollars. And so we were able to work that investigation, shut that down in I think a fairly timely fashion, and be able to gain a lot of information as to how these criminal enterprises are conducted, how they work. This was literally, as far as I'm concerned, kids, who are comfortable in cyber; they understand cyber; they understand how the system works, and they were actually taking advantage of those weaknesses. It was a huge criminal enterprise. So we, along with the partners in the financial services sector, are able to now take what we learned, those best practices, and apply it to our investigations, but also building countermeasures to prevent those kinds of intrusions from occurring in the future.

Mr. Abel: Well, what's real interesting about that case is that five, six, seven years ago, that capability wouldn't have existed, before the proliferation of the internet. And Paul mentioned before, I was thinking before, what would your reaction have been 30 years ago when you started with the Secret Service, and somebody asked you what the impact of blackberries would be on crime.

Mr. Basham: Right, right, right.

Mr. Abel: So what are the things that we're going to be seeing in the next couple of years that you're concerned about? What trends and technologies do you feel start to give a rise to even more advanced crime as we move forward?

Mr. Basham: Well, again, I think it's just the expansion of the internet. I think it's the constant development of technology that not only provides services to us such as computers and Blackberries. Criminals have the same capabilities; they have the same access, and they aren't restricted by any rules or any regulations or any policies. So our concern is that unless we are able to come to some way of regulating, of controlling that access, I feel that this is going to continue to be one of the big challenges that we're going to face.

In fact, right now, identity theft is the biggest challenge from a criminal enterprise that we are seeing. And as you saw in a couple of cases just recently, Choice Point, Lexis-Nexis, were hacked into; that information was extracted and then sold. And so unless we can build some firewalls in there, for no better term, to restrict that access, then we're going to continue to see these kinds of criminal activities. And it is to me an emerging problem, one that we're absolutely going to have to use technology to fix and to address.

Mr. Abel: Well, one of the things that is most difficult about these types of crimes is the ease with which they cross local, state, and federal authorities and boundaries. How do you relate with state and local authorities on issues like cyber crime?

Mr. Basham: Well, we have a number of -- The Patriot Act actually mandated that the Secret Service establish electronic crimes task forces around the country. We currently have fifteen established electronic crime task forces, and I believe we have another eight or so working groups that -- what it does, it brings together not just the federal resources, but it brings together state and local; it brings together private sector; it brings together academia, to take a look at these kinds of criminal activities, and working together to come up with solutions to fix those vulnerabilities. So these electronic crimes task forces have been very, very successful throughout the country. And it is, again, tapping into those state, local, and federal assets to get that done.

Mr. Abel: It's interesting that you mentioned the private sector. As I was thinking through, I was thinking state, I was thinking local. What more can the private sector do to be able to help on issues like identity theft?

Mr. Basham: Well, it's interesting, because I do a lot of speaking engagements to the financial services sector, and we talk about shared responsibility. Historically, the financial services sector has been a very cloistered sector, because what happens to them affects their bottom line. But if you attack one of these institutions and attack it successfully, you literally are attacking the entire sector, because those vulnerabilities can be exposed in other institutions. So it's about the willingness to provide information to law enforcement authorities that can get in at an early stage and work with them, because after all, they are the experts. I mean, when you think about it, they know their business; they understand the business; they understand when those occurrences happen. And the financial services sector is now much, much more cooperative with the law enforcement community, realizing that without that partnership, those vulnerabilities are going to be further exposed, which means it's going to affect those bottom lines.

Mr. Lawrence: These have got to be sophisticated crimes, requiring talented people on both sides. In terms of sort of folks in the Secret Service, what type of challenges do you have recruiting and retaining people to deal with these very sophisticated crimes?

Mr. Basham: We have seen an awful lot of interest in the private sector in acquiring individuals who have the sorts of investigative, technical talents that Secret Service's employees possess. In fact, we invest an awful lot in our agents in training in the forensic examination of these crimes, and we're seeing that the private sector sees now the benefits of building a protection around their different companies and facilities from a cyber perspective. And if you combine the investigative tools that are developed with agents in the Service as well as that forensic capability, you've got quite a package there, and it's a very attractive package for the private sector to draw, and they are able to better pay for those kinds of services.

So it is a challenge. However, I have to say that we have an awful lot of committed and dedicated people in the organization. They understand how critical the mission is, and they understand that if we're going to be successful, we're going to need to maintain that talent within the agency to be able to work these types of criminal activities. Although that's not to say that we don't lose people, but I'm happy to say that we've been able to maintain our staffing at a very reasonable level.

Mr. Lawrence: Those are some tough economics, the way you laid it out.

Mr. Lawrence: Welcome back to The Business of Government Hour. I'm Paul Lawrence, and this morning's conversation is with Ralph Basham, Director of the U.S. Secret Service.

Mr. Basham: Dave, I think that what we will see is that -- and I believe Secretary Ridge made several comments that we want security to be engrained in our daily lives. Not that it should dominate our daily lives. Look, no agency, no government entity, no matter how large, no matter how well-funded, can single-handedly deal with this problem or with this issue of security. It's going to take every single entity, whether it be federal, state, local, private citizens, in order to ensure that we have a safe, secure, open society.

And we don't want to create paranoia out there, although the Secret Service is, I suppose, paid to be paranoid, which is probably a good thing, but it has to be inculcated into the thinking of everybody in this country. And if you think about the fact that the adversary, their goal, their mission, is to attack us, to attack us in our homes and our places of work, our places of worship, to attack our nation's leaders. And it is our responsibility, my responsibility as well as everyone in this country, I believe, to ensure they don't succeed in accomplishing their goal, and we have to ensure that our citizens and our leaders are capable of living and working and worshiping and leading in a safe, secure, environment.

And so it has to become a part of the way we think. Corporations have a responsibility to protect their own assets, whether it's a nuclear power plant somewhere, or if it's a financial infrastructure, all those are subject to and susceptible to attacks. And I think what hopefully will happen is we all working together creating these partnerships, creating that sense of making sure we're looking out for one another, and that we do: if we see a problem; if we see something that concerns us, that we will notify someone. We never know when one piece of information may in fact lead to a solution that would prevent our citizens of this country from being attacked.

Mr. Abel: How much of the mission in the future of the Secret Service is going to be the promotion of security understanding by private citizens, by public corporations? How much of it will be the development of this continued thinking in the public?

Mr. Basham: I think the idea behind the creation of the Department of Homeland Security was to do just that, and that was to bring all of the various parts together, all 22 agencies that had some responsibility in the area of security and safety together, and to be able to provide one face at the border, if you will, and one face to the American public, that's charged with that responsibility of providing information, not only to our federal counterparts, but to our state and local counterparts, to American citizens; information that they can use in order to provide in many respects their own safe, secure environment.

And so therefore, I think the administration's idea of bringing these various components together and sharing that information, sharing those resources, and giving the federal government one face, is going to be the key to the future, in terms of a safe, secure America.

Mr. Abel: In the course of this morning, we've talked about more change in the Secret Service over the past five years than in many decades before that. We've seen a transition from Treasury to the Department of Homeland Security; we've seen transition to a culture in prevention of terrorism; and we've seen investigation and prevention in the world of the internet and cyber crime. Do you see major trends coming that will carry as much impact and change in the organization in the next five to ten years?

Mr. Basham: I really cannot say that I'm such a visionary that I can answer that question in an articulate fashion. I can only say that the Secret Service recognizes that we've got to be constantly looking for opportunities to better carry out this mission and its function. As I said earlier, I think technology is the key, and even within the Department of Homeland Security, we are relying upon other elements within that department to assist us in coming up with strategies and coming up with methods that we can apply to our mission. And at the same time, we're looking for opportunities to provide the Department of Homeland Security with -- whether it be expertise or resources -- to assist them in that same fashion.

So I should never be shocked at developments, although I am, but I'm afraid I probably couldn't give you a good answer as to what the future holds with respect to the challenges, and perhaps the solutions.

Mr. Lawrence: Ralph, it's clear from our conversation that you're a dedicated public servant who's spent his entire career in public sector law enforcement. What advice from that perspective would you give someone interested in a career in public service, and maybe even concentrating and focusing on law enforcement?

Mr. Basham: Well, I have to tell you that I don't know that I could imagine a more rewarding career, public service. Recognizing that it brings with it challenges; certainly personal and professional sacrifices, which all of us have had to make, particularly in law enforcement. These officers, agents, and personnel and willing to go out every day and go about their jobs, recognizing that the threat is there every day that they may not return home to their family and to their loved ones.

But having said that, a career in law enforcement is one that is incredibly exciting and challenging. Opportunities within the Secret Service are not limited to just to the gun-carrying individuals, agents and officers. We have technicians and scientists, forensic experts and analysts, and just a wide range of responsibilities and jobs that are out there that are available to individuals who do want to get involved in public service, regardless of whether it's law enforcement or whatever. Again, in my opinion, there is no more rewarding career than to be able to provide a service to this country and to its citizens.

And as I said, the mission of the Secret Service has changed over the years. The skills necessary to do the job today are different than they were when I came on the job. And I would strongly recommend, whether it's a Secret Service, or wherever it might be, that someone who's interested in law enforcement should do research on the missions and the responsibilities of those organizations that they may have an interest in.

I tell you, one of the most disappointing things that I see when individuals come in and they're looking for employment is that they don't know exactly how the agency is tasked, and the responsibilities the agencies have. You need to have an understanding of -- when you walk in to that interview or that session, what the mission is, and how you can provide a service to that mission and that responsibility.

But we are constantly recruiting and looking for individuals who are looking for a career that I consider very fast paced and rewarding, and yet at the same time can be incredibly fun. So if anyone is interested in looking at what the opportunities are within the Secret Service, they can certainly go our website, www.secretservice.gov, and that would provide them with a lot of information about the organization. But I would encourage them to not just look at the Service, but to expand across. The FBI is a wonderful agency. So is ATF. So there's a lot of opportunities, but having said that, too, looking to gain experiences in a wide range of positions that will help them as they apply for positions within government, particularly in law enforcement.

Mr. Lawrence: Ralph, that'll have to be our last question. We're out of time. Dave and I want to thank you for joining us this morning.

Mr. Basham: Well, Dave, Paul, it's been a great experience and a wonderful opportunity to tell people about the mission and the great organization that the Secret Service is. And I know you all provide a tremendous service to the public as well, so thank you very much for the opportunity, and I hope it's been informative.

Mr. Lawrence: Thank you very much, Ralph.